~Our Views and research on Genetic Testing ~
_
We have chosen to address the most common Genetic concerns puppy buyers have that are often the most recommended for Breeders to screen for in all of their breeding parents. Please also understand that this testing is pointed at the Pure Bred Breeds as they are heavily In-Line bred, which can cause Genetic Health problems.We have done much research on the advantages and disadvantages of the tests and are testing all of our breeding dogs as they become available, and we will continue to re-visit this over time as these tests improve or become more reliable. As you will see below and in your own research, these test are not an exact Science. They are promoted by the Developers of the tests, of course they want you to buy and do all their tests.
We do believe that some of these tests could lead to even more Health Issues in purebreds! As breeders that use these tests will remove dogs from their breeding line because of these test results, which in turn narrows the breeding lines even more which in turn will cause more health issues in a breed. As responsible Breeders, we strive to breed from quality, healthy and sound parents that will produce no less in their puppies. Our parents are all genetically tested, checked by a licensed Veterinarian every 6 months and continue to be throughout our breeding process and their lives. This is how it has been done, very successfully, by many breeders for many, many years.
I would agree that all the tests would be a wonderful thing if...
1) They were accurate and reliable 2) If breeders understood that the results of the tests should not eliminate dogs that test less than "Excellent” As this will lead to more in-line breeding. And that more In-line breeding is what has caused serious health issues is certain breeds to begin with.
For example: Pugs with serious breathing disorders, English Bull dogs that cannot mate or deliver pups naturally. German Shepard’s that have serious back and hip problems. We, along with many other Breeders, believe that each breeder needs a Vet to help them understand the tests and how to pair their dogs for breeding!
Information about the testing being done.....
HIP DYSPLASIA: OFA or PENNHIP Testing
Hip Dysplasia can be caused by environmental issues (excessive exercise such as tug-of-war, jumping in the air and landing on hips, excessive stair climbing during it’s development as a puppy or obesity.) “Strenuous exercise before the bones are grown can cause many bone problems, including hip dysplasia although, thankfully, there are very few Standard Poodles who suffer with this disorder” "Bad rearing and feeding probably is responsible for most bone problems.. At this moment in time there does not seem to be a definite inheritance factor, as two dogs, X-ray cleared, can throw a dog with hip dysplasia, and vice versa."1Dogs cannot be x-rayed and certified until after 2 years old. Even if both parents are certified Excellent, they can and do produce puppies with good, fair, or poor hips.
(This explains it’s self… Also, A puppy that was allowed to jump, run, over eat, or has poor nutrition can develop Hip Dysplasia no matter what the parents testings were. They can have it even if parents have no signs of it. Last is the fact that if the x-rays are taken too close to the female's heat cycle, it will show incorrect results.)
Progressive Retinal Atrophy (PRA):
“PRA is found in all sizes but is most common in the smaller Poodles. PRA causes the retina to degenerate gradually and eventually leads to blindness. It usually comes on late, when the dog is 5 to 7 years old.” 2 This book does go on to reference The Canine Eye Registration Foundation, commonly referred to as CERF, which “certifies” dogs free of eye disease. 2 (However, as the quote says, PRA shows up in later years, beyond breeding age for most breeding dogs. If it does show up at that time, how will this affect the offspring that were produced when the dog was deemed “Clear”? This test is useless to dogs of breeding age, as it does not show up at that young of an age. ) Sources of Reference1 - “The Complete Standard Poodle", Author Eileen Geeson, page 1332 - "The Essential Poodle", Howell Book House, page 28
Information Taken from the Testing Companies’ Own Web-Sites….
CERF Evaluation (Eye Testing)The certification is only good for 12 months from the date of the exam and afterwards the dog must be re-examined and re-certified to maintain its' registration with CERF. Test results can change from month to month on a dog,therefore testing must be repeated yearly. PRA does not show up until later in life, after breeding years of a dog. Therefore a dog could test “Clear” for several years only to have PRA later in life.(Also, If a breeder gets a bad test result, they would never tell anyone and then just go to Dog Show Clinics and re-test until they get a good result or they would just not let anyone know they ever had the test done and never show the poor results to anyone. Or their dog tests "clear" only to have it appear later after it is past it's breeding years.)
VON WILLEBRAND’S DISEASE: Several Veterinarians said it is rarely, if ever seen in their clients' animals. If a female does not show excessive bleeding during her first heat, or if unless any puppy or adult dog show excessive bleeding for a minor abrasion or cut, it is very unlikely this disease exists. Sebaceous Adenitis: Flea bites and other irritations form matted hair coats or vigorous grooming can cause mild inflammation, shampooing the dog 2 weeks prior to the SA biopsy sampling, if the biopsy samples are taken within of 3 inches from topical flea control product application sites, they can result in equivocal test results.(The accuracy of this test is not 100% because of human error in getting the samples. Also, if the breeder has raised their dog since birth up to breeding age, they would know if the dog has SA as their would be signs of skin problems and/or hair loss during that time. It is best to always see current photos of the breeding Sir and Dam if you cannot meet them in person.)
Autoimmune Thyroiditis - Thyroid The disease has variable onset, but tends to clinically manifest itself at 3 to 5 years of age. Dogs may be clinically normal for years, only to become hypothyroid at a later date. The marker for autoimmune thyroiditis, thyroglobulin autoantibody formation, usually occurs prior to the occurrence of clinical signs. Therefore, periodic re-testing is recommended. The majority of dogs that develop auto antibodies have them by 3 to 4 years of age.(This means that any test done on a dog will be cleared before it actually has markers or clinical signs, which usually doesn’t show up on dogs until ages 3 to 5 years.) Most breeders that do have this test done; have it done when they are ready to begin breeding the dogs (Usually too young for the markers to show up) Also, most breeders only have it done that one time. And of the breeders that do have testing done, most do not have results for every test recommended, Why? Because either they too thought it was too costly, no places near them to have it done, or they had a bad test result and decided not disclose that result to the buyers! You need to understand that the majority of breeders having these tests done are only doing the bare minimum to make them look good to the average buyer that does not know all the details about these tests. They are not having these tests done as often as recommended, as it is costly and time consuming. And most buyers are unaware of how these tests are to be done correctly, it just sounds impressive to them because they are not educated about these tests and all they are hearing these days is that "The Genetic Testing needs to be done" Who do you think is saying that to you??? The Testing Companies!
The Breeders that are doing all the tests, and doing them correctly, and often enough, are selling the puppies for $4,000.00 and up to $7,000.00... Who would really spend that much more for a puppy that has no more guaranty of no health issues than a puppy from healthy parents and blood lines that have never had the tests but the breeder has studied and followed the health of the said bloodline for several generations.
These are just a few reasons why we do not feel the need to have all of these tests done on our breeding dogs. Our views may change as the tests improve, but I don't see them becoming 100% accurate in the near future. Many websites will advise you to deal only with a Breeder who performs all the “recommended” health screening tests for genetic diseases, and that only “reputable” Breeders practice this in their breeding program.
But Please remember that all of these Companies are out to make a profit, so OF COURSE they are going to tell you that all dogs need THEIR test before breeding!
These tests are very costly and an imperfect science, the cost will be reflected in the purchase price of your puppy with no more of a guarantee from health issues then are already in place with our carefully picking quality dogs to breed. Please research the most common diseases and the percentage of chances this disease may exist among the dogs owned by the breeder in question
Your warranty is the most important part of your purchase when you are considering a “Reputable Breeder” and picking your puppy!
There is a large profit in the dog breeding world for Companies that do all of these type of testing, so of course they are trying to get people to believe that all dogs should have “their” test done before breeding. It is a 4 Billion Dollar a Year Industry, they want their piece of the Pie! A good quality breeder has already checked the family history and blood-line of the dogs they are breeding… We do this before we ever buy our breeding dogs! Then we raise them in the perfect environment to become our next breeding dog. Our Vet has treated them during this time. There is a lot of time, effort, and expense involved long before any puppies are actually born. They are closely watched not only by us, but by our Vet during this time. All of our dogs have an examine by our Vet every 6 months. If there is any question to their breeding quality we will have them fixed instead of using them in our breeding program. Which we have made this choice in the past with our first Female Standard Poodle, as she was not a good, caring Mother. It cost us a lot of money to make that choice, but it was the best choice for her! And we will always make the right choice for our dogs, FIRST! There are some breeders that are trying to take a few short cuts. They don’t take the time to study and learn about the family history of the dog they want to breed before they buy it. Or they buy a dog as a family pet, never have it spayed or neutered, then say, "Oh, we have such a Great dog, we should breed it." Never knowing anything about the dog’s family medical history!
For these types of breeders, they should do any and all testing that is out there even if it is not an exact science, and do them often! Bad breeders breed low quality, unhealthy puppies! Get to know the breed you are interested in, get to know your breeder! It took us 2 years to narrow down the blood-lines we wanted dogs from and then find puppies in those lines for sale. Then it took us time to raise those puppies until they were old enough to breed. That is several years invested with out making a penny. Proper breeding takes time and there is little to no profit in it. We do it for the love of the breeds we are involved in, also to have good quality puppies for other families looking for great family pets.
Click Here to see a breakdown of expenses of raising two breeding dogs to have one litter of puppies. There is little to no profit in Breeding, if done correctly!
Read our "About Us" page to understand our journey into the Breeding World.
But Don't take our word for it, Here is what Barbra J. (BJ) Andrews has to say about these Tests.....
by Barbara (BJ) Andrews
In the mid-80's, Akita people rushed to test for VWD (von Willibrand's Disease) while accusing everyone else’s dog of having it. My vet said he would test my dogs if I wanted to waste the money but having cared for them for four generations, he figured we’d know if I had a bleeder. “What about a VWD carrier?” I asked. “What about it?” said he. “If you breed a carrier to a clear you might get a carrier. Might not. If you get a pup that bleeds when you do dewclaws, toe nails or crop the ears or tails, then you don’t breed either parent again.” “Oh.” He shrugged “But I’ll test if you want…..” Made sense to me so I skipped the test. No dog of my breeding ever had or produced Von Willibrands disease.
With all the to-do about CHD, VWD, etc. why do breeders not see wobbly hindquarters, popping hocks, sagging toplines, pounding fronts, and faulty temperaments unless they are in someone else's kennel? Funny, isn’t it?
Toy Fox Terrier breeders became very excited about DNA testing for congenital hypothyroidism with goiter. Curious about how the CHG test came to be developed for a rare condition in a rare breed, I contacted breeders and Dr. Fyfe for statistical data. The response was terrific but frankly, little was learned except that there’s a vehement condemnation against those who are "too cheap" to spend an average of $100 bucks per dog to test for what we are told is in fact a rare condition.
My survey revealed people who “knew” of a CHG affected litter but only two people reported having experienced CHG. Since we are unable to learn how many dogs have been tested to date, we still don't know how or why the test was even developed.
This we do know. CHG affected dogs can’t spread the gene because they DIE within 2 to 3 weeks unless there is immediate veterinary intervention. Even then, the puppy absolutely will strangle as the goiter grows. Nature immediately weeds out that unhealthy gene package just as it does most other serious congenital defects unless breeders intercede to "save the puppy!"
In the 60's and 70's, breeders were convinced that CHD (canine hip dysplasia), was a simple recessive defect. Everyone rushed to vets for OFA (Orthopedic Foundation for Animals) X-rays. Vets rejoiced at the extra income and everyone was happy. Except for a couple of little details.
1.) OFA x-rays failed to reduce the percentage of hip dysplasia in most breeds.
2.) Readings were contradictory, i.e. a dysplastic x-ray could look good when done by another vet or when challenged and re-submitted.
This writer repeatedly challenged Dr. Corley in my Canine Chronicle magazine column on why OFA only certified two joints out of at least ten major joints which determine soundness? Other columnists, breeders, and vets picked up on the subject. Finally, after years of badgering, OFA began to certify elbows.
But there was still a major flaw in the genetic system, one that affected thousands of breeders who strived to make intelligent, informed breeding decisions based on reliable data. I continued to challenge Corley on why OFA refused to insist on positive I.D. such as tattoo, and later, microchip. OFA now, recently started to require positive I.D.
By then the big shocker had become evident. Astute breeders had figured out for themselves and in response to my columns, they wrote, they called, they said they felt duped! X-ray, like CERF and most such tests, is diagnostic, not predictive.
It's like being tested for diabetes or heart disease. An OFA number only means only that the dog x-rayed normal, not that he won't develop hip dysplasia and certainly not that he won't produce it. So an OFA number is only good for current bragging rights but how many dogs have you re-certified?
If top winning dogs can fail to pass OFA while dogs with obviously bad rear movement sport OFA numbers, what does it all mean?
Genetic tests are supposed to clear up any confusion and worry, right?
Breeders might want to re-think the risk of anesthesia just to get a piece of paper that may only be good for a few months.
Exactly the same is true of eye exams. The standard of certification is called CERF, Canine Eye Registry Foundation. It is a risk-free test, often available at dog shows BUT - it too is only diagnostic. CERF certification does not mean that the dog won't develop a serious problem such as lens luxation which is what happened to my English import Mini-Bull terrier only two weeks after she was CERF certified! The real tragedy in that is that I learned it was not that unusual for a CERF-certified dog to literally "go blind."
The same can be said of color doppler heart exams. I know from personal experience, and heartbreak.
You can stop reading right here if you don't like where this is going. Such tests are important, useful tools. Every breeder should carry a good tool chest but it isn't the saw and hammer that builds a house, it is the carpenter!
We need to understand some basics before we rush out to buy the tool chest. Veterinarians don't learn much about canine genetics in vet school. That is a specialty course, an advanced degree. The sad truth is, some vets are cashing in on tests they know little about. Dr. Bardens is but one example. He made a lot of money with his fulcrum X-ray technique, teaching (for a price) other vets how to cash in on the procedure. There is no way to know how many dogs were actually damaged by the force used but hundreds of complaints put him out of "business."
Breeding good dogs in not rocket science when we remove the blinders and put on our thinking cap. Regardless of the health defect, you would never breed from or to an affected dog. An affected dog would not be winning in the show ring.
Perhaps there's a better and predictive way to be sure you are breeding to and from healthy dogs. With the advances in DNA testing, you may be able to ascertain whether a non-affected dog is a carrier for a growing list of health defects. A DNA swab is non-invasive, unlike x-ray and anesthesia. It will take some time to see how reliable DNA tests are for VWD, CERF, CHG, etc.
In the meantime, be comforted in the knowledge that your DNA-cleared dog can only produce affected pups if bred to an affected dog. No way will you knowingly do that! If the DNA cleared dog produces a carrier, that means the other dog is a carrier. Can two clear dogs produce a carrier? No clear answer yet. Can a clear dog develop the problem or become affected? We're told that in primary lens luxation (PLL) that can happen so there remain unanswered questions with new DNA testing.
If you plan to advertise a dog at stud, in today's market you better have him genetically cleared for every potential defect known to that breed! Even so, your competitors will still whisper and insinuate things about your stud's genes. If your dog turns out to be a carrier, you only breed to cleared dogs. No big deal. It is not a death sentence, not even the end of a breeding career. Your Doberman might carry blue or fawn but if you don't want that in your line, you don't breed to a dog that carries it. Personally I see no reason anyone would ever breed from an affected dog even though it has been done on the grounds that he has so many rare virtues desperately needed by that breed, and he was only bred to "clear" dogs.
Novice breeders are quick to throw stones at proven breeders who are slow to jump on every bandwagon. Such breeders know their bloodline, including what dark genes lurk there. They also know that “kennel blindness” occurs on both sides of the lenses. Successful breeders may be stoned for not testing; by losers who have finally found a platform from which to proclaim “I’m more conscientious than you.”
Over twenty years ago I wrote "You can live with and love an unsound or sickly dog but a dog with bad temperament is a joy to no one." It became a popular quote for a very good reason. It is true. So how are you going to prove the temperament and character that is correct for your breed? Isn't that far more important than proving your dog has good hips, eyes, or heart? I say it is but the only temperament test is a dog that is shown (without drugs!) in competitive events and one who is known to consistently produce mentally sound dogs.
Puppy buyers have been schooled to ask for health certifications but they don't realize that the sire or dam has to be locked away when visitors come, or that it can't breathe or reproduce naturally! AKC has made advances by offering Canine Good Citizen tests. Obedience and Agility tests a dog's I.Q. and stability.
There is one reality we must face before we get all wound up about the latest, newest, desperately needed DNA test or health screening. In spite of all that we do, genetic problems are increasing. Every year new diseases are diagnosed in companion animals. It isn't that researchers and vets are getting better at what they do. It is a sign of the times and equally true in the human population. Just thought I'd mention it...
So even with all the tests, are breeders able to fix canine eye, heart, organic, reproductive, and orthopedic defects? We haven't made much progress in some breeds, with problems we can SEE, the ones that are DOMINANT and can shorten the life span or cripple the dog. A casual look around any show ring clearly reveals some breeders would rather paint their gene bank with paper certificates than with good structure, health, and temperament.
Maybe the answer lies in human nature. If we can buy bragging rights for a hundred bucks per test, that is enough for some breeders.
Genetic testing is a useful tool. Think of it as one of many brushes in the artist’s case. Do we teach breeders to step back and view the landscape before splashing color on the canvas? Or do we encourage them to paint with just one color, knowing that our canvas will easily win over theirs?
I don’t have a lot of letters after my name. I just have a lot of top ranked winners and producers. I’ve been creating juried(judged) works of art and like many others who learned the hard way, I did it before we had such wonderful tests and tools. We learned “genetics” before words like polygenic, homozygous, and DNA were invented! We will gratefully use what science has afforded us but the test has yet to be invented that will replace logic, attention to detail, pedigree research and hard work!
If we have truly learned anything about genetics while painting our gene bank, it is how to create a masterpiece that can be reliably reproduced. That is the challenge.Taken from her Published Article Titled "Genetic Dog Bank"
There are also some health issues that can not be tested for in dogs, just as in people, you would not know unless it came up 8n your bloodlines. Then your Vet needs to guide you as to if the dig should not be bred again, used with a different dog, or that it has nothing to do with the bloodline at all. Just as with children sometimes something shows up in a puppy that has not been seen before. Thus is why it is important to know what is covered under the Breeders Warranty and understand why some times would not be.
We have chosen to address the most common Genetic concerns puppy buyers have that are often the most recommended for Breeders to screen for in all of their breeding parents. Please also understand that this testing is pointed at the Pure Bred Breeds as they are heavily In-Line bred, which can cause Genetic Health problems.We have done much research on the advantages and disadvantages of the tests and are testing all of our breeding dogs as they become available, and we will continue to re-visit this over time as these tests improve or become more reliable. As you will see below and in your own research, these test are not an exact Science. They are promoted by the Developers of the tests, of course they want you to buy and do all their tests.
We do believe that some of these tests could lead to even more Health Issues in purebreds! As breeders that use these tests will remove dogs from their breeding line because of these test results, which in turn narrows the breeding lines even more which in turn will cause more health issues in a breed. As responsible Breeders, we strive to breed from quality, healthy and sound parents that will produce no less in their puppies. Our parents are all genetically tested, checked by a licensed Veterinarian every 6 months and continue to be throughout our breeding process and their lives. This is how it has been done, very successfully, by many breeders for many, many years.
I would agree that all the tests would be a wonderful thing if...
1) They were accurate and reliable 2) If breeders understood that the results of the tests should not eliminate dogs that test less than "Excellent” As this will lead to more in-line breeding. And that more In-line breeding is what has caused serious health issues is certain breeds to begin with.
For example: Pugs with serious breathing disorders, English Bull dogs that cannot mate or deliver pups naturally. German Shepard’s that have serious back and hip problems. We, along with many other Breeders, believe that each breeder needs a Vet to help them understand the tests and how to pair their dogs for breeding!
Information about the testing being done.....
HIP DYSPLASIA: OFA or PENNHIP Testing
Hip Dysplasia can be caused by environmental issues (excessive exercise such as tug-of-war, jumping in the air and landing on hips, excessive stair climbing during it’s development as a puppy or obesity.) “Strenuous exercise before the bones are grown can cause many bone problems, including hip dysplasia although, thankfully, there are very few Standard Poodles who suffer with this disorder” "Bad rearing and feeding probably is responsible for most bone problems.. At this moment in time there does not seem to be a definite inheritance factor, as two dogs, X-ray cleared, can throw a dog with hip dysplasia, and vice versa."1Dogs cannot be x-rayed and certified until after 2 years old. Even if both parents are certified Excellent, they can and do produce puppies with good, fair, or poor hips.
(This explains it’s self… Also, A puppy that was allowed to jump, run, over eat, or has poor nutrition can develop Hip Dysplasia no matter what the parents testings were. They can have it even if parents have no signs of it. Last is the fact that if the x-rays are taken too close to the female's heat cycle, it will show incorrect results.)
Progressive Retinal Atrophy (PRA):
“PRA is found in all sizes but is most common in the smaller Poodles. PRA causes the retina to degenerate gradually and eventually leads to blindness. It usually comes on late, when the dog is 5 to 7 years old.” 2 This book does go on to reference The Canine Eye Registration Foundation, commonly referred to as CERF, which “certifies” dogs free of eye disease. 2 (However, as the quote says, PRA shows up in later years, beyond breeding age for most breeding dogs. If it does show up at that time, how will this affect the offspring that were produced when the dog was deemed “Clear”? This test is useless to dogs of breeding age, as it does not show up at that young of an age. ) Sources of Reference1 - “The Complete Standard Poodle", Author Eileen Geeson, page 1332 - "The Essential Poodle", Howell Book House, page 28
Information Taken from the Testing Companies’ Own Web-Sites….
CERF Evaluation (Eye Testing)The certification is only good for 12 months from the date of the exam and afterwards the dog must be re-examined and re-certified to maintain its' registration with CERF. Test results can change from month to month on a dog,therefore testing must be repeated yearly. PRA does not show up until later in life, after breeding years of a dog. Therefore a dog could test “Clear” for several years only to have PRA later in life.(Also, If a breeder gets a bad test result, they would never tell anyone and then just go to Dog Show Clinics and re-test until they get a good result or they would just not let anyone know they ever had the test done and never show the poor results to anyone. Or their dog tests "clear" only to have it appear later after it is past it's breeding years.)
VON WILLEBRAND’S DISEASE: Several Veterinarians said it is rarely, if ever seen in their clients' animals. If a female does not show excessive bleeding during her first heat, or if unless any puppy or adult dog show excessive bleeding for a minor abrasion or cut, it is very unlikely this disease exists. Sebaceous Adenitis: Flea bites and other irritations form matted hair coats or vigorous grooming can cause mild inflammation, shampooing the dog 2 weeks prior to the SA biopsy sampling, if the biopsy samples are taken within of 3 inches from topical flea control product application sites, they can result in equivocal test results.(The accuracy of this test is not 100% because of human error in getting the samples. Also, if the breeder has raised their dog since birth up to breeding age, they would know if the dog has SA as their would be signs of skin problems and/or hair loss during that time. It is best to always see current photos of the breeding Sir and Dam if you cannot meet them in person.)
Autoimmune Thyroiditis - Thyroid The disease has variable onset, but tends to clinically manifest itself at 3 to 5 years of age. Dogs may be clinically normal for years, only to become hypothyroid at a later date. The marker for autoimmune thyroiditis, thyroglobulin autoantibody formation, usually occurs prior to the occurrence of clinical signs. Therefore, periodic re-testing is recommended. The majority of dogs that develop auto antibodies have them by 3 to 4 years of age.(This means that any test done on a dog will be cleared before it actually has markers or clinical signs, which usually doesn’t show up on dogs until ages 3 to 5 years.) Most breeders that do have this test done; have it done when they are ready to begin breeding the dogs (Usually too young for the markers to show up) Also, most breeders only have it done that one time. And of the breeders that do have testing done, most do not have results for every test recommended, Why? Because either they too thought it was too costly, no places near them to have it done, or they had a bad test result and decided not disclose that result to the buyers! You need to understand that the majority of breeders having these tests done are only doing the bare minimum to make them look good to the average buyer that does not know all the details about these tests. They are not having these tests done as often as recommended, as it is costly and time consuming. And most buyers are unaware of how these tests are to be done correctly, it just sounds impressive to them because they are not educated about these tests and all they are hearing these days is that "The Genetic Testing needs to be done" Who do you think is saying that to you??? The Testing Companies!
The Breeders that are doing all the tests, and doing them correctly, and often enough, are selling the puppies for $4,000.00 and up to $7,000.00... Who would really spend that much more for a puppy that has no more guaranty of no health issues than a puppy from healthy parents and blood lines that have never had the tests but the breeder has studied and followed the health of the said bloodline for several generations.
These are just a few reasons why we do not feel the need to have all of these tests done on our breeding dogs. Our views may change as the tests improve, but I don't see them becoming 100% accurate in the near future. Many websites will advise you to deal only with a Breeder who performs all the “recommended” health screening tests for genetic diseases, and that only “reputable” Breeders practice this in their breeding program.
But Please remember that all of these Companies are out to make a profit, so OF COURSE they are going to tell you that all dogs need THEIR test before breeding!
These tests are very costly and an imperfect science, the cost will be reflected in the purchase price of your puppy with no more of a guarantee from health issues then are already in place with our carefully picking quality dogs to breed. Please research the most common diseases and the percentage of chances this disease may exist among the dogs owned by the breeder in question
Your warranty is the most important part of your purchase when you are considering a “Reputable Breeder” and picking your puppy!
There is a large profit in the dog breeding world for Companies that do all of these type of testing, so of course they are trying to get people to believe that all dogs should have “their” test done before breeding. It is a 4 Billion Dollar a Year Industry, they want their piece of the Pie! A good quality breeder has already checked the family history and blood-line of the dogs they are breeding… We do this before we ever buy our breeding dogs! Then we raise them in the perfect environment to become our next breeding dog. Our Vet has treated them during this time. There is a lot of time, effort, and expense involved long before any puppies are actually born. They are closely watched not only by us, but by our Vet during this time. All of our dogs have an examine by our Vet every 6 months. If there is any question to their breeding quality we will have them fixed instead of using them in our breeding program. Which we have made this choice in the past with our first Female Standard Poodle, as she was not a good, caring Mother. It cost us a lot of money to make that choice, but it was the best choice for her! And we will always make the right choice for our dogs, FIRST! There are some breeders that are trying to take a few short cuts. They don’t take the time to study and learn about the family history of the dog they want to breed before they buy it. Or they buy a dog as a family pet, never have it spayed or neutered, then say, "Oh, we have such a Great dog, we should breed it." Never knowing anything about the dog’s family medical history!
For these types of breeders, they should do any and all testing that is out there even if it is not an exact science, and do them often! Bad breeders breed low quality, unhealthy puppies! Get to know the breed you are interested in, get to know your breeder! It took us 2 years to narrow down the blood-lines we wanted dogs from and then find puppies in those lines for sale. Then it took us time to raise those puppies until they were old enough to breed. That is several years invested with out making a penny. Proper breeding takes time and there is little to no profit in it. We do it for the love of the breeds we are involved in, also to have good quality puppies for other families looking for great family pets.
Click Here to see a breakdown of expenses of raising two breeding dogs to have one litter of puppies. There is little to no profit in Breeding, if done correctly!
Read our "About Us" page to understand our journey into the Breeding World.
But Don't take our word for it, Here is what Barbra J. (BJ) Andrews has to say about these Tests.....
by Barbara (BJ) Andrews
In the mid-80's, Akita people rushed to test for VWD (von Willibrand's Disease) while accusing everyone else’s dog of having it. My vet said he would test my dogs if I wanted to waste the money but having cared for them for four generations, he figured we’d know if I had a bleeder. “What about a VWD carrier?” I asked. “What about it?” said he. “If you breed a carrier to a clear you might get a carrier. Might not. If you get a pup that bleeds when you do dewclaws, toe nails or crop the ears or tails, then you don’t breed either parent again.” “Oh.” He shrugged “But I’ll test if you want…..” Made sense to me so I skipped the test. No dog of my breeding ever had or produced Von Willibrands disease.
With all the to-do about CHD, VWD, etc. why do breeders not see wobbly hindquarters, popping hocks, sagging toplines, pounding fronts, and faulty temperaments unless they are in someone else's kennel? Funny, isn’t it?
Toy Fox Terrier breeders became very excited about DNA testing for congenital hypothyroidism with goiter. Curious about how the CHG test came to be developed for a rare condition in a rare breed, I contacted breeders and Dr. Fyfe for statistical data. The response was terrific but frankly, little was learned except that there’s a vehement condemnation against those who are "too cheap" to spend an average of $100 bucks per dog to test for what we are told is in fact a rare condition.
My survey revealed people who “knew” of a CHG affected litter but only two people reported having experienced CHG. Since we are unable to learn how many dogs have been tested to date, we still don't know how or why the test was even developed.
This we do know. CHG affected dogs can’t spread the gene because they DIE within 2 to 3 weeks unless there is immediate veterinary intervention. Even then, the puppy absolutely will strangle as the goiter grows. Nature immediately weeds out that unhealthy gene package just as it does most other serious congenital defects unless breeders intercede to "save the puppy!"
In the 60's and 70's, breeders were convinced that CHD (canine hip dysplasia), was a simple recessive defect. Everyone rushed to vets for OFA (Orthopedic Foundation for Animals) X-rays. Vets rejoiced at the extra income and everyone was happy. Except for a couple of little details.
1.) OFA x-rays failed to reduce the percentage of hip dysplasia in most breeds.
2.) Readings were contradictory, i.e. a dysplastic x-ray could look good when done by another vet or when challenged and re-submitted.
This writer repeatedly challenged Dr. Corley in my Canine Chronicle magazine column on why OFA only certified two joints out of at least ten major joints which determine soundness? Other columnists, breeders, and vets picked up on the subject. Finally, after years of badgering, OFA began to certify elbows.
But there was still a major flaw in the genetic system, one that affected thousands of breeders who strived to make intelligent, informed breeding decisions based on reliable data. I continued to challenge Corley on why OFA refused to insist on positive I.D. such as tattoo, and later, microchip. OFA now, recently started to require positive I.D.
By then the big shocker had become evident. Astute breeders had figured out for themselves and in response to my columns, they wrote, they called, they said they felt duped! X-ray, like CERF and most such tests, is diagnostic, not predictive.
It's like being tested for diabetes or heart disease. An OFA number only means only that the dog x-rayed normal, not that he won't develop hip dysplasia and certainly not that he won't produce it. So an OFA number is only good for current bragging rights but how many dogs have you re-certified?
If top winning dogs can fail to pass OFA while dogs with obviously bad rear movement sport OFA numbers, what does it all mean?
Genetic tests are supposed to clear up any confusion and worry, right?
Breeders might want to re-think the risk of anesthesia just to get a piece of paper that may only be good for a few months.
Exactly the same is true of eye exams. The standard of certification is called CERF, Canine Eye Registry Foundation. It is a risk-free test, often available at dog shows BUT - it too is only diagnostic. CERF certification does not mean that the dog won't develop a serious problem such as lens luxation which is what happened to my English import Mini-Bull terrier only two weeks after she was CERF certified! The real tragedy in that is that I learned it was not that unusual for a CERF-certified dog to literally "go blind."
The same can be said of color doppler heart exams. I know from personal experience, and heartbreak.
You can stop reading right here if you don't like where this is going. Such tests are important, useful tools. Every breeder should carry a good tool chest but it isn't the saw and hammer that builds a house, it is the carpenter!
We need to understand some basics before we rush out to buy the tool chest. Veterinarians don't learn much about canine genetics in vet school. That is a specialty course, an advanced degree. The sad truth is, some vets are cashing in on tests they know little about. Dr. Bardens is but one example. He made a lot of money with his fulcrum X-ray technique, teaching (for a price) other vets how to cash in on the procedure. There is no way to know how many dogs were actually damaged by the force used but hundreds of complaints put him out of "business."
Breeding good dogs in not rocket science when we remove the blinders and put on our thinking cap. Regardless of the health defect, you would never breed from or to an affected dog. An affected dog would not be winning in the show ring.
Perhaps there's a better and predictive way to be sure you are breeding to and from healthy dogs. With the advances in DNA testing, you may be able to ascertain whether a non-affected dog is a carrier for a growing list of health defects. A DNA swab is non-invasive, unlike x-ray and anesthesia. It will take some time to see how reliable DNA tests are for VWD, CERF, CHG, etc.
In the meantime, be comforted in the knowledge that your DNA-cleared dog can only produce affected pups if bred to an affected dog. No way will you knowingly do that! If the DNA cleared dog produces a carrier, that means the other dog is a carrier. Can two clear dogs produce a carrier? No clear answer yet. Can a clear dog develop the problem or become affected? We're told that in primary lens luxation (PLL) that can happen so there remain unanswered questions with new DNA testing.
If you plan to advertise a dog at stud, in today's market you better have him genetically cleared for every potential defect known to that breed! Even so, your competitors will still whisper and insinuate things about your stud's genes. If your dog turns out to be a carrier, you only breed to cleared dogs. No big deal. It is not a death sentence, not even the end of a breeding career. Your Doberman might carry blue or fawn but if you don't want that in your line, you don't breed to a dog that carries it. Personally I see no reason anyone would ever breed from an affected dog even though it has been done on the grounds that he has so many rare virtues desperately needed by that breed, and he was only bred to "clear" dogs.
Novice breeders are quick to throw stones at proven breeders who are slow to jump on every bandwagon. Such breeders know their bloodline, including what dark genes lurk there. They also know that “kennel blindness” occurs on both sides of the lenses. Successful breeders may be stoned for not testing; by losers who have finally found a platform from which to proclaim “I’m more conscientious than you.”
Over twenty years ago I wrote "You can live with and love an unsound or sickly dog but a dog with bad temperament is a joy to no one." It became a popular quote for a very good reason. It is true. So how are you going to prove the temperament and character that is correct for your breed? Isn't that far more important than proving your dog has good hips, eyes, or heart? I say it is but the only temperament test is a dog that is shown (without drugs!) in competitive events and one who is known to consistently produce mentally sound dogs.
Puppy buyers have been schooled to ask for health certifications but they don't realize that the sire or dam has to be locked away when visitors come, or that it can't breathe or reproduce naturally! AKC has made advances by offering Canine Good Citizen tests. Obedience and Agility tests a dog's I.Q. and stability.
There is one reality we must face before we get all wound up about the latest, newest, desperately needed DNA test or health screening. In spite of all that we do, genetic problems are increasing. Every year new diseases are diagnosed in companion animals. It isn't that researchers and vets are getting better at what they do. It is a sign of the times and equally true in the human population. Just thought I'd mention it...
So even with all the tests, are breeders able to fix canine eye, heart, organic, reproductive, and orthopedic defects? We haven't made much progress in some breeds, with problems we can SEE, the ones that are DOMINANT and can shorten the life span or cripple the dog. A casual look around any show ring clearly reveals some breeders would rather paint their gene bank with paper certificates than with good structure, health, and temperament.
Maybe the answer lies in human nature. If we can buy bragging rights for a hundred bucks per test, that is enough for some breeders.
Genetic testing is a useful tool. Think of it as one of many brushes in the artist’s case. Do we teach breeders to step back and view the landscape before splashing color on the canvas? Or do we encourage them to paint with just one color, knowing that our canvas will easily win over theirs?
I don’t have a lot of letters after my name. I just have a lot of top ranked winners and producers. I’ve been creating juried(judged) works of art and like many others who learned the hard way, I did it before we had such wonderful tests and tools. We learned “genetics” before words like polygenic, homozygous, and DNA were invented! We will gratefully use what science has afforded us but the test has yet to be invented that will replace logic, attention to detail, pedigree research and hard work!
If we have truly learned anything about genetics while painting our gene bank, it is how to create a masterpiece that can be reliably reproduced. That is the challenge.Taken from her Published Article Titled "Genetic Dog Bank"
There are also some health issues that can not be tested for in dogs, just as in people, you would not know unless it came up 8n your bloodlines. Then your Vet needs to guide you as to if the dig should not be bred again, used with a different dog, or that it has nothing to do with the bloodline at all. Just as with children sometimes something shows up in a puppy that has not been seen before. Thus is why it is important to know what is covered under the Breeders Warranty and understand why some times would not be.
